Editor's note: Charles penned dozens of hard-hitting columns for the RoundUp, many exposing political malpractice and possible criminal malfeasance inside Hays County. Here's one from Nov. 20, 2009 that was particularly prescient, "Thoughts on politicians, Pirahna and the public interest" By Charles O'Dell, PhD – Driving past Austin Memorial Park Cemetery the other day brought to mind a reflection that every one of us is heading in that direction. Such a sobering thought brought into sharp focus the importance of making the most of life’s journey . . . Our neighbors’ problems are our problems – unless we choose not to care. We need skilled individuals who will address the public interest first to run for office. Otherwise, the Piranha among us will devour our community.
My friend and the RoundUp's chief investigative political writer and columnist, Charles O'Dell, died today from injuries sustained in a motorcycle accident in San Marcos. At the moment, words cannot express the shock and sadness of Charles sudden passing. Our prayers go out to Charles' wife, Susan, and to his children and family. Charles will be missed by many friends and believers in freedom of information.
Charles co-founded HaysCAN, a community based government watchdog organization in 2003. Its mission statement and Charles personal commitment was to "provide clear and accurate information to help Hays County residents understand the actions taken by their elected officials." We believe Charles was in San Marcos to collect copies of documents from his latest public information requests from Hays County.
San Marcos PD dispatch said the department is investigating the accident that occurred on the 400 block of Hopkins St. No other details were made available.
Update, Thursday Feb. 2: From a report this morning from the San Marcos Mercury:
According to Sgt Brandon Winkenwerder, O’Dell was traveling east on Hopkins around 4:15 p.m, on a Kymco Grand Vista Motor Scooter behind another vehicle approaching the North Street intersection.A westbound Dodge Durango driven by Joshua Matthew Eismann, 22, of New Braunfels, attempted to turn left on North Street and struck O’Dell’s motor scooter.
O’Dell was knocked off the cycle. He was taken by ambulance to CTMC where he was pronounced dead by Justice of the Peace JoAnn Prado shortly before 5 p.m.
Amber Land, a Texas State sophomore, told the University Star that she witnessed the collision and attempted to render aid to the victim, who she said was breathing but unresponsive immediately following the accident.
Eismann was cited for failure to yield the right of way. San Marcos Fire department, San Marcos-Hays County EMS and SMPD Collision Investigation Team responded to the scene.
73 comments:
The world has lost one of its finest creations.
Charles was smart, strong, brave and funny as hell.
A friend, mentor and hero.
Charles, you will be missed.
That is terrible news! Our deepest sympathy goes out to Charles' family.
He will be greatly missed by all of Wimberley.
Please give the family our condolences.
Merry & Fred Merian
Hays County lost a man of integrity and a diligent investigative journalist who tried to expose local political corruption in his own direct way.
My condolences to Charles's family - as well as to all his friends and colleagues who were much closer to him than I was.
May Charles find peace and justice at his next station.
Whether you loved him or not, I think that we can agree that Charles held to a standard and didn't waiver, no matter who said what to him. I loved that he was so passionate, and he held his friends to the same high standard as he did everyone else.
I'll miss his passion, his intelligence, his kindness, and the twinkle in his eyes. We've lost a good man and a friend.
He always told our little dog he was the ugliest he'd ever seen, (Pepe does have a face only a mother could love,) but Senor Pepe always made a beeline to him just the same (much to Charles' chagrin.:)
Kathi Thomas
No matter how much I disagreed with him or misguided I may have thought Charles' ire was directed, I am shocked to learn of his death in such a horrific way. My condolences to his friends and families. For whatever it's worth, Charles was a man of conviction, and it's always a sad day when someone passes in such a drastic way that takes someone from his loved ones without a chance to say goodbye.
Charlie, whereever you are now, I will miss you. I will Pray for your family. You and I did not always agree on specific issues, but we always worked together to achieve a workable result. Your contributions to Hays Co will be missed.
Roy Pursley
"Editor's note: Charles penned dozens of hard-hitting columns for the RoundUp". He could always spin a good tale and sell it as truth to his flock. He will be missed.
Charles stood for truth and justice. I have not seen any of his articles in the Roundup lately but I suspect he was hot on the trail of another titilating expose. I will miss him and his writing terribly. Would only that others follow his example. May truth and justice shine on!
A courageous, intelligent man, unafraid to buck the system. That is how I shall remember Charles O'Dell. Rest In Peace Charles.
A motorscooter is not a motorcycle and reportedly Charles was not wearing a helmet. Witnesses said the collision was somewhat minor and that he would have probably survived had he been wearing one. The young man will now have his life ruined since he caused the death of someone who didn't take precautions to protect himself.
What a sad tale for all involved.
An eyewitness to the accident who has posted a comment in another story account says Charles was wearing a helmet, gloves and a fluorescent vest.
Charles
You will be greatly missed, You were a great friend and there is a giant hole in my heart. we were pleased to have know you and all that you did. You lived a great life and appreciate all that you worked for in your HAYSCAN grass roots work. He was gracious, loving, caring and a great dancer! I only wish we had one more time on the dance floor. The Skelley's will miss you terribly.. Charles was wearing his helmet! He took extra extreme training and knowledge on how to ride. This still cant help with a 2 ton vehicle that crosses ones path.
Anonymous of February 4 at 7:29 AM tries to hide his shamelessly disquised attempt to slam O'Dell post mortem by saying:
"The young man will now have his life ruined since he caused the death of someone who didn't take precautions to protect himself.
In other words, O'Dell ruined another person's life?
Stop!
For you people who hated O'Dell for the truth you didn't like, at least give Charles and his family a few days of non-political grieving and reflection to absorb this life ending tragedy.
Blaming the victim is never a good tactic for making sense of a tragedy.
There is a photo of Charles' motorcycle that was published in the TxState online news outlet the day of the accident with the bike laying in the road in front of Zelig's bar...and his helmet is clearly visible.
This is another reminder that our roadways should be made safe for all forms of travel: Pedestrians, bicyclists and motorcyclists should all have the right to safely use our shared roadways. We ALL pay for them, one way or another.
The era of the total domination of our roads by giant automobiles will surely come to an end some day.
Not only will gas (and cheap steel) run out, but an enlightened citizenry will realize eventually that no one should have to compete with an SUV.
Not exactly a fair fight.
To Disgusted:
Thank goodness for you! The two nasty posters who cannot say a kind word about anyone or anything have no clue how to behave.
I wish to offer my condolences to Dr. O'Dell's family and friends. So sorry for your loss.
In the last couple days since Charles O'Dell's death, here are a few of the comments I have heard or read about him:
"he wasn't wearing a helmet; he ruined someone's life."
"I should have had feelings about his death, but I didn't. Isn't that sad?"
"He could always spin a good tale and sell it as truth to his flock."
Hmmm! Sucker punches? Or honest eulogizing?
As to a story written by Brad Rollins about O'Dell's death in the Hays County Free Press, I found it interestingly restrained - considering the fact that Rollin's boss was almost always a target of Charles O'Dell.
However, in the Rollin's article, some of what he wrote about O'Dell (which I believe was disguised as criticism), I saw as a compliment to O'Dell's journalistic honesty.
Examples:
1. "...Sumter and Cobb included, later appeared to regret his (O'Dell's) help (getting elected) after he turned on them..."
Actually, I see it as a strength that Charles was willing to admit when he was duped by disingenuous campaign rhetoric – and he made sure the post-election lies and flip-flops were exposed. Isn’t that what a competent journalist should do?
2. "His small cadre of supporters saw him as a fearless and dogged crusader against corruption but those he targeted thought he was a shameless provocateur."
Again, I interpret "small cadre" as meaning few people were willing to deal cognitively and honestly with O'Dell's indignation and loathing of potential local corruption and hypocrisy.
Also, "those he targeted thought he was a shameless provocateur."
Ironically, what Rollins inadvertantly meant was this: O'Dell felt that if you are going to get elected and put yourself out as someone the public should trust (and who the public is paying with tax dollars), you are held to a higher standard and your public life is open to hard questions and observations, sometimes even "provoking" his targets into a defensive position.
3. Rollin’s used the word "innuendo" in his piece - probably meant as a negative about Charles.
Ironically, nowadays when a politician accuses a journalist of "innuendo" it is usually when embarrassed politicians are "playing the victim" - when media does their job and catches politicians and people in power of compulsive lying and/or in the act of their soon to be discovered corruption.
Did Charles go too far sometimes? Maybe. But no one else in Hays County had the courage to do what he was doing.
So, in the end, the primary journalistic "fault" of Charles is that his style of journalism is begrudgingly considered acceptable on the national or even state level.
But on the local and county level - especially in Texas where politics has long been administered in an acceptably corrupt good old boy networking manner - it became “personal” when Charles had the chutzpah to expose local politicians who in his view were engaging in the act of their endemic public/private sector horse trading.
I believe Charles would have been seen more favorably by many more local citizens if we all could just understand that by nature politicians often become pathological liars either before or after they are elected, and that most business interests who are motivated to pay for a politician's campaign are "greedy bastards" who will do just about anything to protect and grow their wealth - almost always at the expense of democracy (some more than others).
So to Charles I say: Regardless of your post-mortem detractors, the Hays County political community will unfortunately be able to breathe a lot more comfortable now that you are gone.
And because of that, your untimely passing should also make the rest of us a lot less comfortable - especially when trying to understand what is happening in the low-illumination meeting rooms of our Hays County politicians.
This today from a comment in another online blog site that deals with Hays County issues.
"Frank C. De Leon
February 3, 2012 - 10:10 pm
"I was in the vehicle immediately behind Dr. O’dell when he was struck and I can tell you without a doubt that he was wearing a helmet, gloves, a leather jacket and a fluorescent vest. I’d never met him but he has been in my prayers ever since. May God rest his soul and bless his family, friends and foes."
So I hope that quiets those willing to blame Charles for his own death and for ruining the life of his assailant.
The news outlet where the comment above came from (and I use the word "news" very loosely here) was ALWAYS upset with everything Charles did in politics, mostly because that other site (whose name shall remain unspoken) is literally owned and run by the Barton cabal.
Jeff Barton was one of Dr. O'Dell's perennial subjects for scrutiny, as poor Jeff never really has formed a solid ethical foundation and this became quite obvious during his time in public office.
That gang over in Buda/Kyle really wanted to install their cabal further into Hays County government, but people like Dr. O'Dell, with plenty of help from thousands of other citizens, both Democrats and Republicans, put the brakes to that.
According to one eyewitness statement, charles was riding up close to the car in front of him , thus hiding himself from the car who hit him. Although the accident can be more blamed on the young man, If charles were practicing defensive driving tactics, he would still be around. He was in the right, but that doesn't help much when you are competing with cars.
rIf anyone has information on funeral arrangements, would you please post them.
Charles was not "hiding" from the car that hit him.
Charles got hit by a car while riding his motorcyle by someone in a hurry to make a left turn at a terrible intersection.
Charles didn't do anything "wrong".
Charles did not kill anyone.
Charles did not break the law.
Charles died, anyway.
My god, give it a rest.
You know, Charles' death caused me to have quite a bit of reflection over the last few days. He was one who to me could be a little over the top with his stories, but aside from the difference of opinion, there was a human side to him as there is with us all.
I had several acquaintances ask how it made me feel when I heard of Charles' untimely passing, and I would repeat here what I have said for the last several days - sad. Not for the loss of someone that I disagreed with, but as someone who feels the loss of life unnecessarily as sad.
I shared with one friend of a religious nature that was more upbeat about his death than I thought appropriate, the passage from the Bible (Ezekiel 33:19, "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.") came to mind that no matter whether one thinks a person evil (or good), if you are a Christian, you should NEVER rejoice in the death of a person. (If you find yourself of another religious persuasion, I cannot speak to your specific beliefs, and would not pretend to, just speaking as a Christian to others who say that they hold the same beliefs.)
So, friends and enemies alike, let's take a pause, catch our breath, and let a dead man rest in peace. Give his family the respect and privacy that they so justly deserve to remember their loved one in peace without the intrusion of media, or those who can't separate the personal from business (or politics).
As one who was no fan of Charles, I can honestly say, that we should all draw from this a lesson in humility and try to find a bridge across this chasm that threatens to destroy the greatness of what makes us a unique nation and people. The ability to be "out of many, one"; E pluribus unum.
Let go of that which does not build up; and let's begin to bridge the gap that separates but with the ability to criticize constructively and accept criticism humbly and with the aim to realize that perhaps we do have a chink in the armor that we need to be more reflective in realizing that no one person or group is perfect and that we are all fallible. Together we can make this society and nation a stronger and more perfect union. "United we stand, and divided we fall."
RIP Charles, all the rest of us - let's get on about our business, and leave this fellow's memory alone.
Sincerely,
JT
Jon, over the years, you and I have disagreed. As, over the years, I disagreed with Charles. Your last comment was well said.
Jon,
I could not disagree more with your assertion that we should just move on.
Charles fought with you because you became one who worked for development in Hays County that many of us oppose.
Charles saw you go from someone who was only mildly involved in carrying out the wishes of the wealthy and well-placed to someone who has become no less than a cheerleader and enabler of massive urban-style development into Dripping Springs.
The fight against this way of thinking and this kind of rampant development is far from over and you will have others just like Charles (though likely not as eloquent nor as well-researched) who you will have to contend with.
And uses of the word "wicked" to even get near Charles O'Dell are so inappropriate as to raise the hackles on a stone.
Charles was a good man, a brilliant man, a kind man and one whose work will continue, so watch your back, Charles may be gone, but this ain't over.
Is the world better off because of Charles Odell? I can say that it is and I am one who had disagreements with him.
Charles was upfront about his beliefs and writing. He signed his name to everything he wrote.
I have litte respect for those of you who critize the dead and are so insecure that you will not sign your name to your post.
Saturation Point:
I did not infer, or mean to infer, that Charles was by any means "wicked", just that there are those who if they make that allusion, that if they too are Christians, should not "rejoice" in the death of someone that they may see as "wicked".
I did not hate Charles, and I cannot say aside from our disagreements that he did more than irritate me with his style. His goals were worthy goals. It was his taste for the confrontational and questionable methods and his view of "facts" that were often opinion that I found at times distasteful.
As for whether or not you like me or dislike me for my job, that is your cross to bear. I would hope that anyone who knows me would take the time to get to know me first before saying things as you just have (and without using your name). I am not saying either that the debate over the growth of the area is over, just asking for the peace of leaving Charles' name out of it for the sake of his family and his memory.
If you are to take up the banner Charles lifted up; then may you bear the banner well, and may we be able to constructively engage in dialogue knowing that we both have the ability to be right and wrong on individual points in our beliefs.
Best regards,
JT
I have no intention of using my real name in these essentially anonymous online conversations.
The nasty comments made on this and other blogs become even more nasty when people use their real names, and those comments have a tendency to follow them into the real world.
I like the freedom to say things in these online forums without having to put up with people knowing who I am, where I live, my phone number or where I go to church.
I like not having to be a democrat or a republican here, nor a man or a woman, a young person or an old one.
There is a real freedom in being invisible sometimes and having the freedom to express onesself without consequences.
Charles was willing to put himself on the line every day. I cannot say that I possess his courage to take all that heat.
Call it cowardly, if you will, I call is wisdom.
And rest assured, I do not confine my comments nor my activism to online blogs.
I speak in public forums all the time and there is no hiding who I am then.
I do real work in the community to promote my beliefs and my concerns.
I just don't want to do that all the time.
So, for those of you who think we all have to use our names every time we want to say something,
I say: NOT
Jon, that you equate who you are with what you do for a living is a questionable way to look at your life.
Unless, of course, you really are one equating yourself with those same people you purport to be regulating.
What you do for a living may change someday, will this mean you become a brand new person?
Jon, I wasn't criticizing you as a person, I am simply aware of your involvement in development, first for Hays County and now in DS.
I do know who you are and what you do, at least what you do in public.
You are a public figure, I am not.
At best, I am an observer who sees things going on I do not like and yet feel powerless to stop, because I do not have the money the developers have to influence public officials.
I am not responsible for people making money by paving over aquifer recharge lands or using too much water or building houses no one needs. This is you.
It is just too easy for regulators to get cozy with those they are charged with regulating. It is, after all, who you end up spending time with and having substantive conversations with...and likely the occasional lunch.
The common citizen should take these kinds of people out to dinner more often, but frankly, we are too busy also making a living.
Happens all the time and is common enough that probably regulators should not be allowed to stay in those positions too long.
Just too tempting to go easy on your new "friends".
Just remember, Jon, those big-wigs are not really your friends, they are just using you.
Do you get invited to their parties?
I didn't think so.
Saturation:
Your comments and opinions are quite frankly unfounded and ridiculous. This is not a forum for discussing my job or your baseless allegations. My friends aren't developers or environmentalists. I have few real friends because I refuse to let people get by without complying with the rules. As for parties I don't get invited to many parties by environmentalists or developers. I am not popular with some because I enforce the rules as they're written not as some wish they were. Big difference. Stay anonymous. The truth is more than enough to tell who you are.
Lastly, for those reading, this is exactly the kind of nonsense that is the politics of personal destruction based on nothing but innuendo and personal attacks because of jealousy and hatred of the rules not being what you wish they were.
I am ending my responses to the anonymous individual who does not know me or my heart, and makes assumptions that have no basis and spoken hatefully. If this is the kind of responses that expected to be "constructive criticism" than this nation is doomed.
Everybody's talking and no one says a word
Everybody's making love and no one really cares
Always something happening and nothing going on
There's always something cooking and nothing in the pot
Everybody's runnin' and no one makes a move
Everyone's a winner and nothing left to lose
Everybody's flying and no one leaves the ground
Everybody's crying and no one makes a sound
Everybody's smoking and no one's getting high
Everybody's flying and never touch the sky
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
John Lennon
Love is real, real is love
Love is feeling, feeling love
Love is wanting to be loved
Love is touch, touch is love
Love is reaching, reaching love
Love is asking to be loved
Another Song for Charles:
Love is you
You and me
Love is knowing
We can be
Love is free, free is love
Love is living, living love
Love is needing to be loved
Marx and Lennon (Groucho and John)
To Jon Thompson and any others who want us all to roll over and be civil while you destroy the countryside:
Not happening.
We love the land, the clean water and the dark night skies too much to just let you "regulate" its destruction.
We also have the right to protect our way of life in still-somewhat-rural Hays County and that right takes precedence over the right of greedy developers to change it forever.
Call me a no-growther, call me whatever you want, but I work for a "higher power": Mother Earth.
@ thinking out loud 02/07/2012 11:52 AM who said...
Call me a no-growther, call me whatever you want, but I work for a "higher power": Mother Earth.
Sure you do. Show us the W-2 form. Father Time will be terminating your employ.
To Jon Thompson and any others who want us all to roll over and be civil while you destroy the countryside:
Not happening.
We love the land, the clean water and the dark night skies too much to just let you "regulate" its destruction.
Where were your regulators when you moved here? No doubt you live in a house with lights and expect clean water to be magically delivered.
With respect to "the" land the problem is that you love someone else's land. If you want to dictate what's done there then go buy it from the current owner - otherwise bug off.
We also have the right to protect our way of life in still-somewhat-rural Hays County and that right takes precedence over the right of greedy developers to change it forever.
Says who?
You can take "your way of life" wherever you want to go.
The actions of people to further degrade the land and to pump our aquifer to unsustainable levels is not something I will stand idly by and allow to happen.
The land and the water are all connected, what happens to one tract of land impacts others.
Pumping in one place drains the aquifer in another place.
Not exactly rocket science, but apparently you refuse to see it that way.
We are all connected and what one does affects us all.
I am not going anywhere and you are not going to harm the Earth.
You uber-property-rights paranoics would have us all living in little fortified bunkers wearing tin foil hats.
You really need to get our more.
jon thompson isnt invited to developer parties because he does not have the power you are bestowing on him. he makes developers follow the rules -- he is not the rule maker. to solve this issue of development coming into Dripping Springs and/or Wimberley you have to go to the land owners (sellers) or the legislature (rule makers). if a strip joint wants to operate in Dripping Springs they need property and they need meet the local rules. if they meet the local rules and they buy property, jon has no option but to grant a permit. Real simple you numb skulls. jon aint powerful enough to keep them out.
Hey "thinking out loud"
I own a ranch that is up for sale. Im not going to sell it for ranchland prices. Im looking for a developer to buy it for developement prices.That is my right. If the developer meets all of Hays County rules and all the ETJ rules of Dripping Springs, who are you to say it should not happen. Same with the True ranch in Wimberley. Mr. True knew fully that his ranch would be a subdivision when he sold it to the first developer. My land, My decision, get over it.
You can buy my neighbors 300 acres at whatever price and put it into a conservation easement. That is fine with me,but no, you dont want to do that, you want to dictate to me what I can do. you are an idiot
It's all about money and power with you people, isn't it?
Pathetic.
No, Thinking Out Loud, it is not all about power and money with these people.
It is only about money, because these people have NO power - which is why they are greedy little self-absorbed hustlers who are willing to destroy our beautiful county with subdivisions and deplete our water with their lifeless quest of money.
At least you are thinking. They are both Anonymous to all of us as well as to their own souls.
ok you mother earth nerds---it is my land, my water----get over it
Hey Anon 2/8 6PM, are you paying taxes on ranch value, or development value? I think, we all know it is the former, not the later. Good luck geting that development price given the state of the economy from the GWB time forward.
Yes I do take that ag exemption just like you take your homestead exemption. We are both playing by the rules. If the rules change I will continue to play by the rules. I will sell at whatever the market is at the the time of sale and be happy about it, just like you will when you sell your spread. So why do you dislike me so much you pin headed idiot
Why look back at GWB time period. Everyone plays by the rules now as before. Lets enjoy our prosperity. Mother Earth will forgive the rancher who sells to developers just as she will forgive the pencil neck Prius owners who ditch their old batteries in County bar ditches becuase of the high cost of replacement. Get over your hightone ways you chai latte drinking idiots who travel long distances in their gas guzzling suv so they can commune with other pencil necked idiots..
Mother Earth owns you, too, and she is not in the habit of suffering fools.
Charles was a great Texan who gave of himself unselfishly to make our lives better. He fought tirelessly to protect the environment and ensure justice and fairness prevailed over the schemes of those who sought only to enrich themselves. His death is a huge loss.
Lilith:
God will not be mocked with such foolery as this "Mother Earth" nonsense. He who created all things created the earth and all things in it. The worship of created things rather than the Creator is the genesis of the problems of the world.
And which Creator would that be? There are a number of creation myths.
Last Anon:
You are quite dense. There is only One Creator - Yahweh, the Lord God Almighty, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the One in Three; Jesus, God Incarnate. There are many creation MYTHS, only ONE Creation TRUTH.
(Since you are quite the skeptic, why not ask Lilith some penetrating questions about "Mother Earth"?)
It's so ironic that this article has gone in so many directions and ends up with discussion of myth and creation. Charles, as a excellent creator of many myths himself, would be loving it!
Sounds like at least Three Gods you got twirling 'round your soul there Sister!
Why in the world anyone would want to lock their spirituality up so tight, I do not understand.
I hope your creation myth makes you happy and explains things for you, but that particular paternalistic story just doesn't do it for everybody.
There are many roads to the truth.
A great many people would disagree with you C.E. but no one will be sure until they pass; and then it's a little late to clue the rest of us in.
And yet so sad that the truth is right in plain view! Many truths to the truth? That's nonsense - every religion can't be true - every religion is exclusive in it's own right - in the marketplace of ideas, it's like evolution - survival of the fittest, or in the case of spiritual evolution that the truth will out the others as fake and man-made, with no basis in history, but only in the mythical mish-mash of human sinfulness looking to make a god of their own making that has no accountability for the behavior and actions of those who inhabit the created world.
Dear C.E.
Discover paragraphs and punctuation.
Works wonders for communication and makes you appear less breathless.
The issue with religious and ethics discussion brings a new direction. As we can see there are obviously those who don't want the Christian religions telling them what's right and wrong. But the christian religions have developed scenerios that address nearly every issue with guidance on how to deal with it. But there are non Christians who feel that since they are not Christian, they don't have to be guided by any rules of morality or ethics. My personal belief is that people need to find a society or group that sets its moral rules to go by and these organizations should have a series of laws that give them direction.
If not, its going to require the government To legislate morality more than it has.
If I worship Allah, and am wrong, will the Great Spirit be more upset than if I decide to not believe in any god?
Feel free to substitute any entity for the two above, repeat until all combinations have been covered.
CE said, in part:
"....fake and man-made, with no basis in history, but only in the mythical mish-mash of human sinfulness looking to make a god of their own making that has no accountability for the behavior and actions of those who inhabit the created world."
You do ever look yourself or your "revealed" religion straight in the eye?
There could not BE a more contrived cacophony of myths and unlikely events than the bible and the twists and turns of what Christians have done to these old Jewish stories is beyond comprehension.
You can believe what you want, but your claims to the one truth are a bit presumptuous in a world of 7 billion versions of what is real and good...and true.
And as for "accountability for the behavior and actions of those who inhabit the created world," this is what showing respect and connectivity to Mother Earth is all about.
And never forget:
My goddess gave birth to your god.
Anonymous said, "But there are non Christians who feel that since they are not Christian, they don't have to be guided by any rules of morality or ethics."
This is not an accurate portrayal of those not calling themselves Christians.
Everyone has "rules of morality" and for all of us, these come from a variety of influences.
I don't think that someone has to sign onto some official or specific set of rule, such as those of a particular church to behave in society as a good and decent person.
I am more inclined to believe that people are naturally good and have a naturally tendency towards sharing with others and for treating one another well. This has been my personal experience in the world, in spite of some evidence to the contrary.
I see not original sin, but original goodness, interspersed with selfish or short-sighted actions and beliefs.
Yes, I think people are basically good and that morals flow from that, not from wickedness.
Lilith:
This conversation is such nonsense.
Biblical wisdom says to not argue with a fool - (Proverbs 26:4-5)
"4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes."
I have answered you according to your folly, and have tried to warn you not to be wise in your own eyes. Since that has been to little avail; I back up to verse 4, and do not wish to be counted in on your foolishness.
Wiccans have an old and well developed belief system. Those who follow the Tao as well. Who is to say who is correct? Wouldn't that be judging?
Dear CE,
Using your holy book as a logical defense for your positions is very circular reasoning.
I do not think you are a fool, I just think you are being a bit narrow-minded and judgmental...and missing out on so much love and wisdom.
There are plenty of other people in the world who are just as smart and as righteous and you and you would do well to realize this.
There is a big, wide world beyond Wimberley...and your church.
Nonsense?
The meaning of life is nonsense?
The source of morals is nonsense?
People talking about their deepest convictions is nonsense?
Nonsense.
CE, I have chosen to not act wise, only posted questions, which it would appear you have chosen to disregard. Now, who is acting wise? And you cite biblical wisdom, a tome that has undergone numerous translations over the years. Which version do you cite? And please do not say "in the original text" unless you can read all of the old dead languages is was written in, assuming you have access to the true original text as well.
Put bluntly CE, your holier that thou attitude is exactly what puts a great many off of your chosen mythology.
Look ninnyhammers:
This is such goofiness in the way that you argue "circular reasoning". (BTW - the same is true of the idea of the THEORY of evolution using your arguments.)
And for the anon who suggests that the Bible has been translated multiple times, and wondering what translation from which I read, again, your arguments are ridiculous. The Bible (Old Testament and New Testament) has more than 5000+ extant copies within a couple of hundred years of the events that they chronicle, and yet their veracity is called into question. Yet, have you or any other "scholar" questioned how many copies of other ancient manuscripts exist to prove their veracity? How do you know that there was anyone named Julius Ceasar? How do you know that there was any such Greek philosopher Socrates or Plato? Can you find their original manuscripts? Can you name how many COPIES of their manuscripts exist to provide manuscript support for actual scholarly critique? No you can't (good bet); but if you could, the number of comparable manuscripts pales in comparison to the scriptural evidence for the support of the Hebrew and Christian texts that are ROOTED in history versus other religions who make up fairy tales about their gods. You can't tie any other religion to their history as they don't want to admit their history has any reality (it might prove up their FALLIBILITY and SIN). Yet, the very thing that gives more credibility to the Hebrew and Christian texts are their very nature of exposing their heroes humanness, and that they are unable to provide for their own salvation and that the world is much larger than they are and that it takes a God who created them to save them.
Lilith: My attitude is not "holier-than-thou". My attitude is one of someone who is sincere in his faith in believing that the Scriptures are true and that there is one way and only one way to salvation and heaven. The biggest lie perpetrated on humanity is the one of multiple paths to salvation. Such is the lie that the EVIL one would have everyone believe, because if all are true than none are true. Just like life, there are winners and losers, and truths and lies. In this instance - Christianity is the truth, and all other religions are lies, falsehoods, and dead-ends which reveal nothing but the true nature of man - idolatrous and covetous.
Who was Enoch's mother?
Where are the original texts written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Ever read them? Can you read them?
And you never answered the question of which version of the bible you cite. Please do.
Your constant,"my way or the highway" is tiresome.
Hate to break the really bad news to you, the world is older than you believe.
Belief systems have been in place far longer than yours.
But for some reason the only folk that fall back on the old "love it or leave it" seem to be christians.
Funny thing is, if you actually followed his teachings, you would be a better human being.
Why is it that Charles felt that it was acceptable to be dishonest in all of his publishings? In his civility, humanist, or ethical groups that he belonged to was this behavior accepted? Or did he belong to these groups so that he would appear to his audience be be someone who cared about honesty? Or did he believe, as some of the middle eastern religions do, that the means justifies the end result that you are desiring?
There was nothing dishonest about Charles O'Dell's reporting. You could disagree with the conclusions he reached, but no one can dispute the file load of facts he unearthed and reported about his subjects. I will echo what a friend observed that Charles left his footprint (not fingerprints) all over Hays County. It will be hard to fill.
The only people I ever heard claiming Charles O'Dell's reports were not factual were the people whose misbehavior he reported to the public.
Charles cast a wide net and a long shadow and it will take dozens of us to even begin to do the work he began.
Charles wasn't lying, he was telling you all truths you were not willing to listen to.
Bob I agree with you Charles was an honest reporter. You may not have agreed with him but you had to admire his honesty and dedication to the truth, as he saw it. I did not have the honor of knowing him personally but I feel as if I knew him through his writings. We are all diminished by his passing.
Editor: yes he did tons of research, and reported the grains of it that he chose to report.....pulled a word from one sentence, two words from second paragraph, three words from third page all mixed in with his own editorial serum without discerning between the two with the result being something completely opposite of the real story and the story ending how Charles wanted it.
You must have been one of the ones he dug up information on.
You guys really didn't enjoy Charles' work.
I can understand why: too many people in this county have been playing fast and loose with the law and the taxpayer's money for far too long and it was a jolt to to your way of doing business to have someone call you on it.
Living in Hays County is like going back in time to when mob bosses ruled and the DA and the Sheriff (in their pockets) protected them from prosecution.
Maybe someday, Hays County will come into the 21st Century, but probably not today.
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